Wednesday, November 09, 2005

 

The Roof, The Roof, The Roof is On Fire...

1) Do you smell the smoke? The Sun-Times certainly does. Just when Bill Self thought the story would die a quiet death, the Chicago Sun-Times is now questioning the whole Sherron Collins fiasco. Rumors are rampant....Collins gave a verbal commitment to Illinois.....Coach Longstreet wouldn't let him commit. Longstreet says that never happened...Sherron just fell in love with Kansas on his visit.....Longstreet keeps denying he was paid by Kansas ("show me the cancelled check").....but nobody had mentioned any money. Now, Longstreet says that he was told to be quiet...("it's getting too ugly")....but by who?? And why?? I certainly don't claim to have any answers......but I do smell the smoke.

2) Not that I'm offering advice.....but if I were a young reporter trying to make a name for myself.....like, say, Michael O'Brien of the Chicago Sun-Times, I think I might keep digging through that Sherron Collins story. As a matter of fact, I might take a longer look at the whole Kansas program.....some funny things happening around there lately. Collins, Rush, Chalmers....yep, some interesting things going on in Lawrence. I think I'd keep talking to Mr. Longstreet....the man says the most interesting things.....even when he isn't asked. I've heard Longstreet isn't real popular in the CPL.......might be some people in that league that could help Mr. O'Brien out. But, I'm not offering any advice.

3) Back to the court.....where I would much rather focus now that the season is here. Anybody excited to watch Jamar Smith play tonight? Be honest.....all of you doubters are starting to wonder about him. To be fair, it was only 1 exhibition game, but boy did he look good. When I think about teams trying to zone us this year, I think about a lineup that includes Brown, McBride and Smith and I don't worry as much. McBride needs to step it up or he will be coming off of the bench by the Big 10 season.

4) Eric Gordon.....the time is now. Why wait? This offense is perfect for you. Immediate playing time is here....maybe a 3-guard look with Jamar, Gordon and a PG.....Mr. Rose your table is ready. Eric...are you waiting for Duke? Paulus, Henderson., Scheyer, Pocius and Nelson...plus a few SF's already on the roster....with the first 4 guys not having started their careers at Duke yet. Now, you can certainly play with those guys......but at best, you are going to split time. Is that what you want.....or do you want to make an immediate impact? You can be the guy to get the ball rolling....your commitment ends all the negative talk about Coach Weber. And, he can get you to the NBA.....just ask Deron and Luther.

5) Deonta Vaughn intrigues me.....more of a scorer than a true PG....but this offense with 3 guards that can shoot can be a very scary thing.

6) I guess I'll be the first to say it....since everybody else seems to love them...but I think Michigan St. is overrated. Paul Davis is talented...but very soft. Ager and Brown are very athletic....but very streaky shooters.....and they no longer have the depth at the 2/3 positions. They will miss Hill, Andersen and Torbert more than anyone is saying. Neitzel is still a work in progress. Will see.....but I see no final 4 for them.

7) With the addition of Carlwell and Semrau today, Illinois is collecting alot of depth down low. Who would have thought that Illinois would have plenty of big guys......and be struggling to bring in guards.

8) Can Illinois recruit in the CPL? With guys like Longstreet coaching in the HS, and guys like Larry Butler grabbing the kids during the AAU season, I am beginning to wonder. I'm also wondering if it is worth the trouble.....I would bet that Coach Weber is wondering the same thing.

9) Julian, REBOUND THE DAMN BALL!!! What do you think you are .....a PG?!?!

10) The roof is on fire........Mr. O'Brien........go put it out!



butts

Comments:
Longstreet is a moron. Can this guy make himself look anymore guilty?
 
My question... what kind of shoes will crane be wearing next year?

Addidas? Hmm.....
 
There are other reasons that Weber cannot recruit the Public League effectively than have been reported anywhere. If the rumors I've heard recently from multiple sources are true, Weber shouldn't even bother recruiting a CPL kid.

It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years. If Weber's poor recruiting ends up costing Illinois wins starting in the 2006-2007 season, will the fan base be willing to give this "clean, nice guy" the benefit of the doubt?
 
Neitzel had 16 points and 7 assists last night in MSU's first exhibition game. Shannon Brown had 20 points on 6-8 from the field, 4-5 from three point land. I agree that there isn't much depth on the wing behind Ager and Brown, but as long as those guys stay healthy, I think this is a legitimate Final Four contender. IMO, without having looked at the conference schedule, MSU should run away with the Big Ten title. Everybody else is playing for second.
 
Well...what are the reasons he can't recruit the CPL kids??

butts
 
C'mon this is your site. What are the rumors. You can say "allegedly"
thx
 
No chance I'm going there on a public site. I know there's a reporter working on the story and I'll let him break it if it ever comes out. But there are some things that are well-known in the CPL about Weber that, IMO, will never make the light of day but are part of the reason Weber is not recruiting well.
 
Weak.

I hope you never stay up late at night wondering why people question your credibility.
 
Wait....did I just see Ryan try to spin this from a "Longstreet and KU are in bed together" story to a "Weber's got dirty secrets" story? I swear I did.....

Ryan, either say it all, or don't say anything at all. You're a master at lobbing innuendo out there and treating it as fact....

Given your feelings toward Weber, I'd be amazed if you had anything at all.
 
Phil, good to see you. Another guy's working on the story. Like I said, I'd be surprised if it sees the light of day. All I'm saying is I doubt Weber has success in the CPL any time soon. Not that he's had much success anyway. I just think he should probably focus his energies elsewhere.
 
Kur-tis Town-send

clap clap clap
 
IHN...you do seem to be implying that Weber has done something wrong...if you aren't going to provide any comment on what that is...probably should not have mentioned it.

I, on the other hand, have no problem saying that I believe Kansas has paid for sherron Collins...and it would be nice if that reporter with the sun-Times kept working that story.

Weber did get Brock.....something happen since then?
 
Brock was not an elite level prospect. I think Weber can successfully recruit marginal CPL players that have Illinois as their best "name" option, a la Calvin Brock and Marcus Arnold. I also think Simeon is a special case where the head coach is a huge Illini fan. Outside of Simeon, I do not expect Weber to recruit elite CPL players well. I know many will not care, and that's fine, just saying I hope he doesn't spend much energy on it if the rumors I've heard are true.

Butts, if you'd like to email me about it, go ahead, I think you'd agree then that it wouldn't be proper to put on a public forum.
 
Ryan...what is your take on Dawson now denying that Self told him at Nike cmp that Collins would never go to Illinois??


butts
 
Butts:

Let me preface my response by saying that I like Brett Dawson personally and I think he's a good guy.

I will also say that he must not have realized that I was standing right next to him when Self made the comment. Self was sitting next to Augie (they conversed for about a half-hour) and Dawson was standing next to them at the end of the bleachers. I happened to be standing around them watching a game when I heard Self say it and laugh. He basically said I don't know where Sherron's going, but it won't be Illinois.
 
Why would Dawson now feel the need to deny that Self made that comment??

butts
 
Butts:

I don't know, I tried to contact Brett the other day but haven't heard back. My guess would be that the Illinois coaching staff is involved, in some way, shape or form, and they've let Brett know that access to them can be cut off if he doesn't play his cards right...
 
All the more reason for Dawson not to back off now....I'm sure the Illinois staff loves that Self is getting a very close look now. His changing his story now benefits nobody but Self.

butts
 
Butts, I guess we're looking at it from different angles. IL coaching staff knows that Dawson is "on the record" as stating that as of July, he knew from Self that IL didn't have a chance. IL coaches want to spin this "silent verbal" story and make it look like Self cheated to get him at the last minute. That way, they won't look as bad for concentrating on Sherron all the way through October instead of moving on to other guard prospects.

Now I'll get ripped for being a conspiracy theorist, but FWIW I still haven't been told by anybody why I got fired from Rivals the day that I interviewed Longstreet.

People can believe what they want...personally, I think the DIA and coaching staff are looking for excuses and deflecting attention away from their inability to recruit at the level most of us are used to.
 
Do you believe Kansas cheated to get Collins??
 
IHN

So, in your opinion Longstreet didn't get paid and there were no improprieties?
Just so I"m clear.
Also, you don't believe that Collins verballed or that Illinois ever led. Is that correct?
 
Butts:

I have no knowledge of anybody getting paid to go to Kansas, whether it be Sherron Collins, Julian Wright, Anthony Longstreet, Larry Butler or anybody else. Unless I see real proof, I think KU/Self outrecruited Illinois/Weber and all of this after the fact is sour grapes and posturing.

Brad, no I do not believe Collins ever verballed to Illinois. If it had, one of the guys such as yourself that is close to the coaching staff would have reported it. Way too big of a story not to report and the coaching staff had absolutely nothing to gain by keeping it quiet, if it was true.
 
IHN

The Collins stuff was out there in August? It just wasn't as public. You heard about it.

Also, if someone close to the staff got that info, but was told not to let it out, why would they? If a player (and his coach) tells you not to make it public, you would let everyone know?

Why would the Longstreet article be bad for you to put out there? I don't understand why that is the thing you keep pointing to?
 
Jesus, Ryan...you sound like Self got to you, too.

For a guy who is supposedly fairly well connected to the CPL, and knows how things go down there, you're playing this one awfully vanilla. I realize that you're trying to strengthen your position by doing so, but right now you're looking like Kevin Bacon in Animal House..."REMAIN CALM!!!!!!!"

Sorry, but you and MOST KU fans are about the only people within 500 miles of CU that are trying to play this one off as clean and green.

And, lest I forget, good to talk to ou again....if I had a trout, you'd be eating scales right now... :-)
 
Jesus, Ryan...you sound like Self got to you, too.

For a guy who is supposedly fairly well connected to the CPL, and knows how things go down there, you're playing this one awfully vanilla. I realize that you're trying to strengthen your position by doing so, but right now you're looking like Kevin Bacon in Animal House..."REMAIN CALM!!!!!!!"

Sorry, but you and MOST KU fans are about the only people within 500 miles of CU that are trying to play this one off as clean and green.

And, lest I forget, good to talk to you again....if I had a trout, you'd be eating scales right now... :-)
 
32, I must have been asleep for the month of August if there was "Collins stuff" out there talking about a silent verbal to Illinois.

What does the coaching staff have to gain by keeping this great big secret of a Collins verbal? We've seen that they're not afraid to float articles out there that making them look better. Collins would be the single most important recruit in every single one of their coaching careers. But you're arguing that instead of floating the news out there and getting KU or others off their back, they chose to keep it quiet for some unbeknownst reason?

Brad, I know how these guys operate and I can understand your unwillingness to state anything that might make them look bad. I think we can all understand the position you are in. That said, I just find it incredibly interesting that nobody in Chicago, C-U, Decatur, Lawrence KS or anywhere heard about a "silent verbal" from Collins until two days after he committed to Kansas.
 
Wait a second, Kevin Bacon was in Animal House?
 
"That said, I just find it incredibly interesting that nobody in Chicago, C-U, Decatur, Lawrence KS or anywhere heard about a "silent verbal" from Collins until two days after he committed to Kansas."

Hence, the "silent" in silent verbal.

Not THAT tough to figure out.
 
Chip Diller---Thank you sir! May I have another!
 
I guess you didn't understand. I'm talking about the Longstreet asking price in August? Are you saying that you didn't know about that?

Also, again why would you take a chance on losing a kid by releasing info that he had verballed when his HS coach and the player said to wait? Especially due to the already tenuous relationship with the CPL.

So, is the Sun-Times guy that you called also posturing and having sour grapes?
 
32--Are you aware of a "specific" incident that would make it difficult for weber to recuit players out of the CPL? Yes or no is fine.

butts
 
Brad, this is fun. I think I know what "asking price" you are talking about. I never heard it from a legitimate source, reported it or say anything about it other than from people like you on Illini-based fan message boards.

For the record, I never contacted anybody at the Sun-Times. I've been contacted by numerous sources regarding why I was fired from Rivals immediately after interviewing Longstreet. I've still not gotten an answer from Jeff or anybody else on that matter.

I've enjoyed reading your articles and you obviously have great access to the coaching staff. Here's hoping they allow you to report one tenth of what you know.
 
I'm not sure. I have heard of one supposed incident, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to me if that is the supposed reason. Email me and we can talk about it Butts.

Of course, that is fact according to some and all other speculation is unfounded and untrue. We believe what we want to believe about people. In these instances there is mostly innuendo, so the character of a person is what counts. Do you believe Anthony Longstreet and Kurtis Townsend or Mark Tupper and Bruce Weber?

My problem with you, Ryan, is that if someone tells you something it immediately becomes fact, although you can't divulge the fact or the source. If anyone else has info it is obviously a conspiracy theory and they are all just covering their asses. There is much hypocrisy in what you post.
 
Yes it is fun. That I agree with. :)
 
32, if I had heard anything, anything at all about Sherron Collins verballing to Illinois in August or September, then I wouldn't be so skeptical about that supposed "silent verbal" being reported after Self beat Weber for yet another recruit.

When I hear the same thing personally from 3 different sources, I tend to believe it is true.

I agree that everything you hear is up to interpretation. I would also agree that I probably do not give Weber the benefit of the doubt the way most Illini fans do. I've heard way too much "smoke" when it comes to Weber and his staff to think he/his staff are perfect and don't make mistakes.

I also think it's poorly played to get into accusing people only after you've lost what you were after...sour grapes.
 
No one said they were perfect.

If someone cheated to beat you, how would you respond?
 
32, if I knew I was fighting a losing battle, I wouldn't recruit the kid. I'd focus my attention elsewhere, and not waste the time/resources on somebody that I thought would get bought. Clearly the Illinois coaching staff didn't feel that way, since Webster/McClain showed up at Sherron's football game the night before he went to visit Kansas.

If you want to be a whistleblower, then get some hard evidence and blow the damn whistle. Don't tiptoe around it and try to send messages through the blatantly biased beat writer press, especially after the fact, unless you have hard evidence to back it up. If you have hard evidence, present it. But to go through the press and use innuendo, I think is pretty snakey.

I guess Illinois fans all of sudden would rather have a guy like Bruce Pearl as their head coach...it's amazing to me how Illinois is the only clean program out there.
 
Ryan, you really seem to know the layout in Chicago, am I to surmise from reading your comments that:

Longstreet is totally above board and reputable.

That Self or boosters of his program would never funnel extra benefits to an AAU coach or those around the player.

That based on your sources Weber has serious skeletons in his closet in regards to recruiting in Chicago?
 
You use innuendo, rumor and a blog to get your point across.
My final point is this. If we had backed off of Collins, as you suggest we should have, then we would be in the same position and you would be crying foul that we didn't recruit him hard enough.
No one has said that IL is the ONLY clean program, just that Kansas and Kurtis Tonwsend are clearly not on of those clean programs.
 
Wow, I just read this entire thing where 32 and IHN are going back and forth implying like they both have some big recruiting info, good or bad. But I learned nothing and am now more curious than ever to know what the heck is going on.
 
Has anyone heard anything with regards to Ramar Smith and Illinois? His name was thrown out by Dawson, Tupper, and Supine and he sounds like the kind of player that Weber was alluding to as what he wants in a guard recruit for this class. Did those 3 beat writers just put his name out there because he is the highest ranked recruit still on board that Illinois previously recruited or is there something to this?
 
i'd like to see an email from butts, 32 and IHN on this topicto be honest.

How do I get those address.

ot just shoot the god of thunder with a hot electronic mail account an email. HIs favorite # is 015
 
32, if I knew I was fighting a losing battle, I wouldn't recruit the kid.

Come on, IHN... you're the same guy who would have ripped Weber for not going after the big time recruits in his own backyard.

Convenient...
 
This all sounds like BS to me....If there were really skeletons in the closet, don't you think it would have already been brought up. This "I can't say" is BS. Just another Weber basher.
 
You know what IHN??? You keep saying that Illini fans think we're clean, but nobody every posts things that say that. Where has anyone ever posted that we are clean and everyone else is dirty??? Not one place.

I swear to all this is holy, I love the information you give out, but the commentary is ludicrous beyond belief. Get a grip.
 
I hate when people say "I have this great info, but I can't say what it is."
That is so effing lame.
What the hell is the point of a blog?
 
IHN said ---I just find it incredibly interesting that nobody in Chicago, C-U, Decatur, Lawrence KS or anywhere heard about a "silent verbal" from Collins until two days after he committed to Kansas.----

Actually, I had heard about the silent verbal to UI weeks before the kid verballed to KU. One such verbal commitment took place over the weekend when Longstreet went out of town and Collins snuck down to CU on his own.

Why is it significant, IHN? That is because Longstreet has controled everything Collins does for some time. Longstreet is essentially Collins' guardian. Many in CPL and Humboldt Park where Longstreet lives believe Collins has lived with LS for some time.

Equally interesting is the things Longstreet has been saying "privately" at his favorite watering holes and to his cronies.

As someone who pats himself in the back as a "CPL insider," why you did not hear such news is largely a reflection on you, your integrity and your M.O.

Frankly, I think you have heard something, you chose not to acknowledge it because it does not fit your agenda and you are not being candid here.

If you truly did not get such news, however, that is probably due to the fact that (a) you have a long and demonstrated history of not keeping a "secret"; (b) you have a tendency to go to Self for Illinois news; and (c) you have, rightly or wrongly, antagonized this staff (unnecessarily IMO).

Ryan, I understand that you have a view point that may be different from most. But, you have now allowed your blind rage against Jay Price and, to a lesser extent, Weber to control your behavior.

Look yourself in the mirror before spouting off more non-sense and lies.
 
IHN said ---I just find it incredibly interesting that nobody in Chicago, C-U, Decatur, Lawrence KS or anywhere heard about a "silent verbal" from Collins until two days after he committed to Kansas.----

Actually, I had heard about the silent verbal to UI weeks before the kid verballed to KU. One such verbal commitment took place over the weekend when Longstreet went out of town and Collins snuck down to CU on his own.

Why is it significant, IHN? That is because Longstreet has controled everything Collins does for some time. Longstreet is essentially Collins' guardian. Many in CPL and Humboldt Park where Longstreet lives believe Collins has lived with LS for some time.

Equally interesting is the things Longstreet has been saying "privately" at his favorite watering holes and to his cronies.

As someone who pats himself in the back as a "CPL insider," why you did not hear such news is largely a reflection on you, your integrity and your M.O.

Frankly, I think you have heard something, you chose not to acknowledge it because it does not fit your agenda and you are not being candid here.

If you truly did not get such news, however, that is probably due to the fact that (a) you have a long and demonstrated history of not keeping a "secret"; (b) you have a tendency to go to Self for Illinois news; and (c) you have, rightly or wrongly, antagonized this staff (unnecessarily IMO).

Ryan, I understand that you have a view point that may be different from most. But, you have now allowed your blind rage against Jay Price and, to a lesser extent, Weber to control your behavior.

Look yourself in the mirror before spouting off more non-sense and lies.
 
Revealing Fallacies...if you want someone to put any validity to your post....why not put your name on it? Do you frequent Longstreet's watering holes? Have you heard him say things? Listen, I don't always agree with IHN...but he puts his name on his posts...why don't you?
 
Butts --

I have always liked you and respect your views. As such, I don't want you to take this the wrong way.

At least for now, I will not provide my name here because IHN is an irrational, vindictive and angry person who plays by a different set of rules than I do.

I will make this challenge, however. When IHN comes clean and tells all of us what he claims to know about Weber, Self, CPL and Collins and what happened between him and Jay Price that got him all fired up against the staff, backed by names and specific references to dates, places and documents, I will do the same.

In other words, if IHN is willing to fully disclose and prove up each and every "innuendo," I will do the same with my "innuendos and speculation."
 
That's fine...as to the Weber/CPL "innuendo" that you refer to....while IHN has heard a story from several different sources....it is not information that can be proven (I have doubts as to whether it occurred)...and, in fact, should not be mentioned here anymore. We will move on.

butts
 
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